Craiglist Strikes Again

STUNNING! American Warmblood Stallion For Sale – $1000 (Winters)

Very handsome Amercian Warmblood Stallion. Looks like the old style Hanoverians. HUGE bone and feet. Excellent conformation. Very very handsome. Not studdy at all! Stabled next to a gelding over the fence. Has pasture bred. Not a mean or aggressive bone in his body. Very kind horse. Wants to please. Approximately 7 years old. Black, 16.2 hand stallion. Part Percheron, part TB, part AQHA.He is not halter broke but he can be pet and brushed. I bought him as a project horse and just have not had the time I had hoped I would have for him. He is smart and picks things up quickly. Just needs time. Truly going to be an amazing horse, just needs someone to work with him. Everyone thinks he is part friesian. Absolutely stunning horse. Reminds me of the old style Hanoverians. Asking $1,000 . I have video of him moving on youtube. He is a beautiful mover and would be a stunning dressage horse or jumper. This horse will be worth a TON of money once he is trained because of how beautiful he is. He is current on vaccines and deworming. You can see the video under “Gabriel Lost From Legend” Under Christa Petrillo video’s.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4391985696.html

When I first read this ad (thanks to Katie for sending), I chortled a bit. Okay, a lot.

  • An untrained stallion
  • An untrained ‘approximately 7 year old’ stallion
  • An untrained ‘approximately 7 year old’ American Warmblood stallion of ‘part Percheron, part TB, part AQHA’ breeding
  • A proclamation about the future worth of said untrained 7 year old American Warmblood of unknown mixed breeding when he becomes trained

Then I watched the video and started scratching my head wondering what Yanci Ranch or the successful racing Appaloosa stallion, Apache Double, had to do with the whole thing. If the stallion in the video is the one being advertised for sale, then there’s a real possibility the horse might make a good working sort. Even without conformation photos, he gives the impression of being a decently built equine. His behavior in the video is typical of the generous spirit of horses, even those neglected for much of their lives.

The ad mentions nothing about the stallion being part Appaloosa, as suggested in the video (but not confirmed), confusing matters more. It would have been prudent (and the truth) for the seller to just simply say ‘unknown breeding’ or ‘grade’.

I couldn’t find anything online specific to a Yanci Ranch closing down 15 years ago and leaving behind a herd of unattended horses, so I can only assume it’s a very localized reality that’s never been nationally discussed.

There was, however, some information about Apache Double, who turns out to be a crossbred – TB/Appaloosa. It’s interesting how he’s thought of simply as an Appaloosa, as seen in this comment: Once again, he set another record, that of being the first Appaloosa to sell for $100,000, when clearly he is not. He is a first generation crossbred of which I’m quite positive his TB parent had at least a bit to do with his success on the racetrack.

Another tidbit in the article is that he won a Reserve National Halter Championship title. He sure doesn’t look like any of today’s halter horses discussed recently on the blog. The photo in the article shows an older Apache Double, 26 or 27 years of age, and clearly arthritic in his body and limbs. But there’s much to like about this individual and it’s no wonder he was successful on the racetrack, in the halter ring and later as a stallion producing winning performance horses. He’d also have made a fine using mount.

What an odd trail to follow from this (in some ways) typical Craigslist equine ad. In the end, though, we have an untrained, aged stallion of indeterminate breeding being passed off, in part, as something he is not. At least he’s priced accordingly. In the right hands, he should become entirely useable (and a gelding).

 

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56 thoughts on “Craiglist Strikes Again

  1. Well I got a new computer and can now view videos. YAAY. Yes the ad is kind of confusing, the black horse is really nice and it’s unclear how he ended up untrained. Just another example of the weird CL world. Someone in my area is advertising a pre mare, poor thing is so fugly it’s almost funny. She has a nice kind eye, hopefully the new owner will not breed her. Sorry again, can’t list it here, but it’s in CL, Inland Empire, farm and garden, under PRE MARE TERRY BLOODLINE

  2. The video says these horses were abandoned 15 years ago on 800 acres so I assume breeding wild until they were captured; presumably the CL poster took this boy on as a project, but couldn’t get him halter broke? It isn’t clear what the timeline is here. Better-quality feral horses, and just guessing as to the breeding. He can’t be registered AWB, I assume, if no one knows his actual breeding?

    • I wondered about the timeline as well. How long as she had the horse and what exactly has she accomplished with him in that time? The ad says she hasn’t had time for him, but it’s hard to believe that considering some of the other content of the ad.

          • he denies they are apps, he claims to have Knabstrupper blood, that is a fairly well regarded carriage breed and that is apparently part of his breeding program. I think that this guy has some goodlooking horses suited to competitive driving and some background in the field. There are lots more laughable attempts at breeding than this one.

          • Not laughing at the result, laughing at the whole ‘I’m breeding ‘Warmbloods’ from half a dozen various non-warmblood breeds (so different crossbreds) and putting my name to it because I’m just that important.

            I thought he said some are Apps, but the others are Knabstuppers?

          • I see, yes, he has tried a number of outcrosses, because I think he wanted some lighter horses than the heavy carriage horses. And using the farm name was hubris.

            I think he said some people seeing the spots/color might think App but it is Knabstrupper and I am sure he can’t guarantee some horse didn’t have some app somewhere laong the way. But it isn’t worth going back to read the ad again.

    • I know what you mean, she puts out other video’s that she is a trainer but zero done to this horse and she used him for breeding to boot. Wonder what fancy names she is giving the mutt foals. Would have made him easier to sell . Nice looking horse but would make a better gelding

    • The lineage was known by the original breeder and by Michael Muir of Stonewall Sporthorses. Christa took the time to find out as much as she could about the 11 wild horses she rescued- of which this was one. More can be read in my comments below.

  3. An appaloosa registration in the main book makes the horse an appaloosa however mingled his ancestry may be. I haven’t looked at the rules lately, but years back, qh, arab and tb were outcrosses that could be registered appaloosa. When the official breed registry opened there were so few appaloosa left that outcrosses went in the book as long as they had color or adequate ‘characteristics’.

    Nice looking horse. People have spent more to get less probably. Someone trying to be in the horse business as a trainer should do better with their ads though.

  4. It’s lateish and I had to read this a few times, but it appears that Gabriel is a descendent of the horses left behind on this ranch. As many of the feral horses are spotted, I assume Apache Double may have played a part in their heritage? He is a quality horse looking as good as he did in the pic if aged correctly in his late 20’s, certainly better than typical App halter types. Though he raced and lays claim to fame for producing 6 figure runners out of 3 figure mares. So, I think I have the App part. But what of Gabriel? He is not typy of any App – foundation, modern or otherwise. This is where I got lost, though I’m tired. He is a good looking horse, I’m probably too old to be halter breaking 7 year old studs, but it’s still a good thing he’s 3000 miles away. This is the type of diamond in the rough I’m drawn to and for the price, I’d gamble on him. Craigslist weirdness? Yes, we have that. But here’s a horse that’s tall, attractive, apparently sound and his story almost matches his state of untraining. Now, who do I know in CA that could make this horse into something useful???? Hmmmmm.

  5. Actually this ad is a great example of how the term Warmblood has in fact become a key marketing term even for people who don’t really know what it means. I think a few years ago, maybe he would be described as a capital-M Mustang with Iberian traits? When what he is by breeding and circumstance is a good-looking feral stock horse.

    • Yes, marketing to the unknowing is rampant. Here in my area, it is the andalusians, and while the mare in my entry may in fact have those papers and those colts, can it be proven, at 17? Just wondering. This horse has popped up on other sites, so I used her.

      • Well she has a bad case of mommy-tummy and a permanently swayed back, so it’s hard to say what she really looks like, poor thing.

  6. Ha, funny you wrote that about Andalusians, so true! I love that even more layers to this mess have been revealed. So a guy decided to try to make his own breed with his name on it? And I would still love to know WHY a “natural horsemanship trainer” that wants to do a documentary on the horse couldn’t even halter break it? Did it turn out he’s super dangerous? I don’t live that far from Winters but I just don’t think I could sneak a peek at this horse and keep my mouth shut.

    • Is there a specific reference to her not being able to get him halter broke? The ad says his temperament is wonderful, she just doesn’t have time for him. I assumed that meant she’d done some basic groundwork with him, but hadn’t got as far as saddling him etc… But then I’m not entirely sure just how long she’s had him in the first place.

      • yes, doesn’t the original ad say halterbroke but uptodate on worming and shots? Which is quite a feat of natural horsemanship if you managed to tame a wild stallion to take his meds without wearing a halter.

          • Yes, I see that now. Missed that. Yikes!! Maybe the time frame is very short and she went, picked him up, did her little round pen video, ‘something happened she didn’t expect’, he went up for sale?

        • Oh crap! You’re right!!! I does say he’s NOT halter broke, but he can be pet and brushed. I missed that. Perhaps she just went and got him and immediately put him up for sale????

          • Her facebook page says she purchased him in May 2013…

            “In May of 2013, Christa and a crew drove out to the Yancy Ranch to load up what horses they could locate and get. In that first group of horses was a stunning black stallion. He took a liking to Christa and she in turn took a liking to him. She named him Gabriel.”

            And the YouTube video was posted July 2013

            So if the ad was recent and he still isn’t halter broke….

          • Yes, I now see it says that. I’m distracted by so many other things, that I’ve missed some of the details.

            The whole thing is really, really starting to stink.

          • “Born abandoned”. But.. wasn’t his mother there?

            “Three herds now roam the hills, many of which are never seen.” Many of the hills are never seen? Oooh, magical amazing (dare I say, “stunning”?) invisible hills!

    • Michael Muir is a grandson of the famous John Muir- a respectable and I might add very knowledgeable horseman who developed a breed of horses called Stonewall Sporthorses. The horses Michael has bred are stunning. Which one of us could accomplish what he has?! I admire the man. He came out to Christa’s ranch and was familiar and able to identify several of the horses as he had been involved in the early stages of the breeding program at Yanci Ranch by providing some stallions and mares. The owners of Yanci Ranch (to be clear, not Michael Muir) fell into hard times, made some life choices that were’t good ones.The horses had been left to run free. Eventually the neighboring ranchers reported all these horses running all over the ranch and breaking their fence lines for food and water… the Humane Society or some such group came and ordered the horses to be removed. The owners of Yanci Ranch were allowed to keep 50 of the 200 + horses. the horses that were removed were sent to auction. (and we all know what that can mean) Eventually the owners of Yanci Ranch had to sell the ranch. The new owners didn’t want 50 head of horses to care for that had been abandoned. They contacted Natural Horsemship trainer Christa Petrillo. She rescued 11 of the horses that otherwise would have gone to auction as well. As for the video- the intent was to make a video about these beautiful horses that were rescued from Yanci Ranch. Christa took 11 wild horses and found wonderful homes for all of them. The stallion in this ad was the best- and he is stunning! His disposition is kind, gentle, sensible and he desires to be friends. He was leary at first as any wild horse is but not crazed and after time and with knowledge and skill I might add, Christa was able to get him to the point where he could become someone else’s horse. Christa’s training schedule is so busy and as with many trainers their own horses take a back seat to client horses in training. She just couldn’t find the time for training on him nor consequently could she find the time to finish the video. Christa found him the perfect owner who has trained wild horses before. The new owner boards him at Christa’s and after just one month has him halter broke and has been leading him all around the ranch. He wears a saddle and bridle now and is turning out to be quite the horse. Perhaps there needs to be a video of Gabriel with his new owner so everyone can be happy for him and will stop bashing a really great trainer, Christa, who is actually a hero. She is one of the good guys. We need more like her!

      • But what makes these Stonewall Sporthorses and not just grade Appaloosas? Were the Yancy Ranch people breeding for Stonewall Sporthorses with Mike’s guidance? Or were they just breeding really nice Apps and abandoned them? Because when Mike Muir was Mike Hanna he was a pretty spectacular App breeder, too. (Not only did he own Apache Double, but also OcalaFlight, and took Ocala Flight to Australia to improve their App program.) (I also have much respect for him, and own/owned Stonewall Blanche and Stonewall Stella, the combined driving champions and veterans of the 3,000 mile Horse Journey across the US.They are absolutely NOTHING like Appaloosas!!)

  7. Or he kicked her in the face or something. I usually read “wonderful potential but unfortunately no time to bring out this boy’s full potential, not fair to let this talented horse go to waste” etc. etc. very cynically as “scares the crap out of me, you give it a try.”

  8. though I dont’ see anything on the CL ad that says the horse is still with Petrillo. She might have been involved in capturing him and then passed him on to someone else (or “adopted him out to his forever home” in rescue-speak). And that person didn’t geld him or halterbreak him. Maybe they gave him his vaccines by dart gun or something? 🙂 However, the only video they have of him is Petrillo’s year-old video? Does that mean he’s running loose and won’t get near a photographer? It is also possible someone has a similar black feral stallion and is linking to Petrillo’s video as a scam. I find it wierd that there are no current pictures of him. Also wierd that any kind of trainer would be putting up a CL ad saying, basically: “I haven’t done anything with this horse in a year.”

    • He stood still quietly while Christa held him by his mane for vaccines. Obviously you don’t realize how busy a trainer’s schedule can be and how their own horses usually take a back seat to client horses. 🙂 Happily Christa found him a wonderful new owner who has been working with him daily for the past month. He has been boarding Gabriel at Christa’s while he works with him. He is now leading Gabriel all over the ranch and has a saddle and bridle on him! This is a happy ending for a horse that was destined for the auction and who knows where… Christa saved his life! And all of you should be more appreciative of people like her.

  9. Well, I’d be very surprised if that horse was 16:2 hh. From the height of the yards they used and the height of the people around, maybe 15:2. I also don’t think he’s as “wild” or feral as they make out. I work with truely feral horses (never seen a fence etc) and there is no way a fence of the height of the ones they used to push him into the trailer would keep them in place. Most feral horses would have far rather gone over the fence (especially when they can get their heads over it) than into a dark, man made, noisy trailer.
    Nice looking horse though. A pity she hasn’t done anything with it.

    • That’s a great point. Katie and I did recently discuss that the notion these horses are feral didn’t seem to make sense. They came to the people when the truck, trailer, cameras etc… showed up. They were easily separated and corralled. They walked into the trailer like they’d at least seen one before. There was no scrambling or panicking once on and the doors were closed, which is often a typical response. They even calmly walked off the trailer without showing any sort of stress/body sweat.

      I think these horses have seen people quite a lot. And perhaps while not directly handled, they certainly don’t appear to be ‘wild’.

  10. Well, I for one am automatically put off at the get-go when a horse is described as an American Warmblood. People, mixing a hot blood with a cold blood does not get you a warmblood. There are those who have enthusiastically described my mare as AW. No, I always say, she’s a draft cross.
    That being said, this is an attractive horse but there is something fishy about this.

        • QH or QH cross. The post legs, low point of shoulder, downhill build, shorter humerus bone, straight structured neck, classic ox-head…um, yeah…not a Friesian anything and I sent an e-mail to the advertiser telling them as much and saying it was false advertising. I’ll see if I get a response back. 🙂

          • Go get ’em Merc! That Fresian would disappear in my herd of QH’s quite easily. I do, however, vehemently disagree that this horse has an ‘ox’ head though it might seem as such if likened to an anteater……… 😉

  11. Wow, you guys need to get a life. Everyone’s an authority or a critic I guess. MIchael Muir (Grandson of the famous John Muir) was of great help in identifying the breeding of a herd of horses that came off of Yanci Ranch. There were known stallions that contributed to the bloodlines of the horse mentioned in this ad. You would have found out a lot of information had you all taken the time to contact the seller. Instead you slander her without knowing what the heck you are talking about. The stallion in the ad is remarkable and very beautiful. Christa Petrillo is a reputable and amazing woman and she NEVER misrepresents the horses she trains or sells. She took 11 wild horses and found really great homes for them all. Now which one of you has ever done that? Christa saves horses, helps people- she is a good guy and here you all are slandering one of the good guys! Wow. Just wow.

    • It’s not ‘our’ job to piece together history for someone else selling a horse, that is the job of the seller. A number of us searched the Internet for specific information about this horse and others of the herd, and about Yanci Ranch, and found next to none and certainly nothing that corroborated her story.

      None of us personally know Ms. Petrillo, therefore we have no idea if she’s reputable, if she’s amazing, or if she misrepresents the stock she sells. All we get to see is a fluffy video set to music that shows absolutely nothing about her training abilities, progress with the horse in question etc… and an equally fluffy Craigslist ad.

      Thank you for adding information, sister? mother? of Ms. Petrillo. Maybe next time the seller should ask for your aid in putting together the information a prospective horseman would want to know about such a horse. Let me get you both started:

      Black, 16.2h GELDING of unknown parentage for sale. Approximately 7 years old. Conformation suitable for an all-around mount. UTD on vaccinations, worming and trimming. LEADS, LOADS AND TIES. Has had limited human contact, but is a quick learner and sensible. $1000 to approved home only. Contact me for further historical information.

      Note: the bold text is what a reputable and amazing horseperson would do after ‘rescuing’ a horse from such a situation and before selling said horse. That same reputable and amazing horseperson would also include a conformation photo that allows other reputable and amazing horsepeople to judge suitability for future use.

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